Developing a multiplying mindset – Part 3

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:07

Lee Stevenson here and Danny Parmalee with the unfiltered podcast Real Church Conversations about church Planting. Glad to be with you. Say hey there, Danny.

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:17

Hey, everybody.

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:20

So we are in part three of our series on church multiplication.

Kind of talking to existing churches and church plants about how do you build the DNA of multiplication into really the heartbeat of your local church, your people, your leadership team? We've taken some time and talking about the importance of sacrifice. We've talked about generosity, the vision alignment.

We've also talked about the art of really kind of giving people away and talked about the importance of application.

One of the conversation points that everybody needs to think through in the local church and specifically leadership, and I'm talking to the parent church side of things at this point is really what model is right for us. There are numerous models when it comes to what are we starting, what kind of church are we looking to launch?

And so we want to just take some time in this episode to talk a little bit about those models. The positive side and the negative or the challenging points of each one of those models. One of the first model we'll talk about.

I'll let you kind of get us going, Danny, because I think this is one that most people are familiar with and kind of the modern age is the idea of multi site. Multi site really is thinking through. We want to replicate the culture and the systems of the parent church in multiple locations.

Why don't you talk to us a little bit about the positive side and even the challenging point doing multi site, if this would be your model.

Danny Parmelee: 00:01:49

Yeah.

And I think too that this episode speaks not only to the parent church, but also some of those planters that are, or those that are considering planting and saying which one is going to be best for me. So I think that that's something I'm hoping that as.

As potential planters are thinking through because some of them may be a really great fit for you and some of them may be not as, as good of a fit.

And this multi site is definitely one that has become popular and it's become attractive to a certain amount of candidates who have always kind of felt a calling to plant a church.

And I think that the reason it's become most attractive is because in many scenarios, the church planter doesn't need to raise financial support, so they overcome one of the big hurdles in church planting right off the bat.

Lee Stephenson: 00:02:37

Sure.

Danny Parmelee: 00:02:37

The other thing that church planners are scared to kind of do is, or they wonder about are the people resource.

And so if you're a multi site Then there's at least an assumption that you're going to get some people from the main church or main campus, if you will, to do that so that there's an attraction there. And for some people it is an absolute perfect fit.

They're able to have resource, they're able to have systems, and to be honest, they're already able to have some, some DNA, some culture that's built in so that they don't need to do that. And for many, you know, potential planters or multipliers, this is, this is a great, great thing.

But there is a downside to it if, if that's not how you're wired.

So if you are a person, and we talk a lot about the difference between, you know, carrier and a vision creator, if you're a vision carrier, that's like a, that's a, a classic and ideal campus pastor.

Someone's already set the vision, have the resources, and you're basically kind of living that out and, and you're doing everything you can to kind of just continue the DNA and the vision of, of the main church. And so for a lot of guys that is just the perfect fit.

But if you are a church planter and you like to create things and create the culture and create the vision, you want to do things your way, you want to make the hard decisions, the leadership shots, if that's you stepping into a campus pastor role, could actually be horrible for you and for the mother church. And so really being able to kind of determine that obviously there's tons of upside. We did multi site.

If you have the right people, you know, doing it, it's great. If you have the wrong people, then you just have a lot of heartache, maybe accidental split or something like that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:04:23

No, that, that's great.

And, and for a parent church, one of the things that they really need to assess, I think if the multi site is the direction they feel called to, is number one, is, is our culture really worth replicating? Is it healthy? Is there something unique about us versus the other churches in the area?

And so if so really you got to spend time fine tuning who are we, why do we do what we do, what is the, the cultural ethos of our church?

And so try to pinpoint what those things are, even writing them down, that these are the things that are going to stay, you know, moving forward, always be the same from site to site to site. The other thing is the systems, the systems of the church need to be healthy in order for this to be able to operate.

Because I mean you saw this firsthand. Every site you add complicates communication lines exponentially.

And so you've got to have really strong systems in place so that everybody knows what's the natural line of communication to solve this issue or to solve this issue. Anything else that you would say about that?

Danny Parmelee: 00:05:32

Just kind of in general, I am a fan of multisite, obviously, because we did it. I'm also a fan of church planting.

It's figuring out both from ascending church perspective, parent church perspective, and planter side, which one is right for you. I have seen more mistakes in multi site than in anything else.

And tons of people doing it just because they saw someone else do it and it actually wasn't right for them. So some of the things that you hit on are just, I mean, so key. And it's.

I mean, there's no way we could, I mean, we could probably have an entire podcast just about mistakes of multi site or those types of things. So I, I don't want to take us down that path too much. But if people thinking through, why are you doing it?

Because there's certain parent churches that actually should be considering multi site instead of planting. They may be better suited, better equipped, better gifted to do multi site interrupt.

There's others that are doing multi site that they should be doing planting. And so to be asking through some of those hard questions. And again, it's not a matter of one's right, one's wrong.

The context, the leadership, the DNA, the culture of the systems, all these different things need to be assessed. And you know, and for some churches, they do both. We ended up doing both.

And we figured out each situation, each planter, each campus pastor, which one was a better route for us. Is this a site or is this going to be a plan?

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:52

Great. Another kind of idea or thought process when it comes to specifically choosing kind of the model of church planting.

Another model is what I would call death by dignity.

It'd be a church that's later in its years, has never really multiplied, and they're declining and it's been this ongoing year after year after year of declining attendance, declining baptisms.

Maybe they haven't had a baptism in a number of years and they're realizing maybe this is our time and it's time for a new season in our building, in our location.

And they look at just handing over the keys, in other words, to a local church planter, that I don't see that much, if I'm honest, Danny, I don't know if you've seen it more Often than not in your circles. But I don't think that's a normal way of church planting.

I do think it's phenomenal when an aging church realizes what reality is and looks at planting the seeds for the future generation.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:00

It's a huge opportunity.

I think we're going to see waves of this starting to happen because there are so many churches that are truly aging out and there are younger church planners that are kind of rising up. And I've had an opportunity to help a couple different churches through this. The key is the word that you said. Death. There has to be a true death.

There's tons of older churches.

Lee Stephenson: 00:08:24

There needs to be a funeral.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:25

There needs to be a funeral. It needs to be over completely because their church is like, hey, we're older.

And what we'd like to do is hire a young church planter and they're going to come in and they're going to get all the young families that we saw 20 to 30 years ago that we're not seeing anymore. And there's not actually a death there.

And what happens is just that old DNA just sticks around and there isn't that true opportunity for innovation and starting fresh. And so anyone from a parent church perspective, it takes a ton of sacrifice to do this. A ton of, you said handing over the keys.

It really is that from every level, the governance, the leadership and everything say, all right, we are truly passing this along for it to be a brand new start. Not just, you know, lipstick on a pig type of thing.

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:13

Yeah, yeah. The third model of church planning. And again, this doesn't happen that often, but it is a model. It is a way of planting. So just being real would.

Would be what I would. Unplanned pregnancy. In other words, it's a church that is planted and thrives really because of a church split happening.

Why don't you speak a little bit to this, Danny?

Danny Parmelee: 00:09:37

Yeah, and where I've probably seen this happen the most is where a church often is a little bit on decline. And then there is a young adult pastor, college age ministry that's kind of started up and the elders are behind it, the lead pastors behind it.

Or this happens actually within youth groups as well too. And all of a sudden there's an evangelistic just, you know, wave that kind of happens.

People are coming to Christ and they're meeting on Saturday nights or Wednesday nights or something like that. Everyone is excited and cheering and then all of a sudden they're like, well, wait a minute, why aren't they coming on Sunday?

Why aren't they participating in our programs? Why aren't they participating in our ice cream social outreach that we're doing? And there's a total mismatch. And also it's like, oh my goodness.

Well, it's because you're not really willing to change.

And the parent church, so to speak, not knowing that they're pregnant, is saying, well, when are they going to graduate and come to quote unquote, real church? You know, and it's often at that times where it becomes an unplanned pregnancy and unfortunately sometimes gets messy, doesn't, shouldn't get messy.

There's ways to maybe, you know, stop that from happening, but becomes an accidental church plant.

Lee Stephenson: 00:10:54

Yeah, absolutely.

And then the other thing I've, I've heard on a regular basis talking about models is sometimes churches go, well, we're too small to plant a church or we're too young to plant a church.

And I, and I understand where that comes from, but I think there are models that allow even small churches, and specifically even churches in rural contexts to look at what I would call partnering church model. When it comes to partnering together with other churches that are like minded to plan a new church in a new area.

I think that's one of the things that honestly Converge does pretty well across the board is that our churches and many of our pastors are committed to being a part of the lead team experience. And for those that are kind of listening in and going, what is a lead team? Lead team is just simply an acronym.

It stands for learn, Encourage, achieve and dream. And the idea is it's getting regionally based pastors together, whether or not that's a cityscape, whether or not it's a rural context.

But churches in the similar area, region, kind of own that region and specifically want to expand the kingdom of God through church planning within that region. So not only are they coming together and encouraged, pray for each other, and just give a sounding board to church leadership.

Their desire, their goal in essence is to dream together to plant more churches in that given context. And honestly, they're going to know who's going to do that best because they're living in that context.

They, they understand, like if you're in for instance, rural Wisconsin, who can plant a church in rural Wisconsin? Not everybody can do that.

And so they will be able to actually pinpoint very quickly, identify, recruit trained guys and women to come in to specific plan.

Danny Parmelee: 00:12:43

Absolutely. That's great. We just, yeah, if every church can play a role in multiplication, doesn't mean that you have to be the, the leader of that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:12:52

Yeah, yeah. The next model would be, it's kind of classified two ways. One would be what I call parachute plant or a pioneering church plant.

That's where really, you know, a leader may recruit a small group of leaders and they go into a totally different area. They have a different focus group, a different focus community.

They may move, relocate into an area where they have no tangible relationships or connections. Not everybody is wired to do a pioneering or parachute plant.

What in your experience, Danny, do you look for if a person is saying, hey, I feel like this is the context by which I'm called to plant? What kind of skill sets are you looking for?

Danny Parmelee: 00:13:35

For that to be successful, they definitely have to have a relational woo because you're, you're going and you're meeting one person at a time.

So that's different than if you were the star of the high school football team in a town and everybody knows you and you can draw from all of those pre existing relationships. You have to have that missionary mindset. I'm looking for the entrepreneur that can truly exegete culture.

We'll say that they're able to go in and to figure out how does this town, this community, how does it work? Who, who are the, who are the influencers, who are the people of power? And to really just have that missionary mindset.

So relational woo and definitely high on being able to understand culture.

Lee Stephenson: 00:14:22

Great thoughts, great thoughts. The last two models are very similar, honestly. And what I would dub them as a branching model or a colonizing model.

And there may be some subtle differences between the two. But a branching model is when a significant core group of people are released from the parent church to go plant a church.

And that's kind of when you think about parenting church. That's probably the model that most people think of. This is what's going to happen for this church.

Colonizing is when several families who really, they're traveling from a nearby community are kind of mobilized to start a church where they live.

And in that kind context, my experience is that the planner has to be able to fit well in the context of that new community rather than really replicating the culture and the ethos of the parent church and the community that that parent church existed. So that's probably the nuance that differentiates is branching versus colonizing.

Danny Parmelee: 00:15:21

And I think with colonizing you tend to, it tends to usually be a bit reactionary in the sense that a church just recognizes like, oh man, there's all, you know, everyone's driving from 30 minutes away. Maybe we should kind of, you know, have something happen over here. When that happens, though, those tend to.

Those people tend to stick longer term in comparison with the branching model. There's usually a lot of initial excitement and people, you know, have more of the proactive missionary kind of mindset.

But usually statistically, around two years, two and a half years, a lot of those people filter back to the original location, which, again, in the beginning for the planter might seem like, oh, my goodness. But if you just have that expectation that understanding multiplication is happening, so God will then fill those gaps with new people.

And it actually is really part of the planting process that I think is beautiful and allows again, new, fresh DNA, contextualization and just growth that way and innovation that way.

Lee Stephenson: 00:16:28

Awesome.

Well, these are kind of seven practical models that church planters and parent churches can consider when it comes to really going after building the kingdom. Some of them are more, you know, prominent than others, but just want to kind of put those out there for people to listen to.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode. This has been the unfiltered podcast, just real conversations about church planning. My name is Lee. This is Danny with you.

Until next time, keep it real, guys.