Going from launch to “Real” church

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:08

Hey, everyone. Welcome to our unfiltered podcast. My name is Lee Stevenson.

I have the privilege of being the executive director of church planting and here's my co host.

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:17

I'm Danny Parmele and I oversee church planting in Converge Mid America.

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:22

And we're just excited to be with you today having real church planting conversations, raw. Just what you hear is what you get, right?

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:31

Exactly.

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:31

So let's talk a little bit today, Danny, about that weird transition that takes place in a church plant. Because early on you're in kind of launch team phase.

You're building momentum towards a grand opening, and then the grand opening happens and then you have to move into like being a church. And I can remember Sunday nights launch team, very intimate, had a lot of fun. And then we hit Sunday morning, had our grand opening.

I can remember very vividly walking out of the movie theater going, oh, like we have a church now. Like, we got to do this now every week.

And there is a major difference between launch team meetings and, you know, now that you're on a normal Sunday morning kind of routine, being a church, what did you guys notice in that transition time period? What would you do differently? What do you say? No, this did work very well for us. And let's, let's just have a conversation a little bit about that.

Danny Parmelee: 00:01:37

Well, I think one of the things that you brought up is, first of all, even just for the planter to prepare themselves because there is so much energy.

I mean, for some guys, it's two years in the making that you're going to this launch and it's like this huge event and then it happens and there is that kind of, oh, my goodness, this is not the end. This is really the beginning. So I think to just even kind of emotionally prepare for that next week.

The other thing is if you had a successful launch and it's super exciting, you have maybe hundreds of people there, whatever it is, maybe your expectations hopefully were met. Maybe they weren't exactly. But the second week is often very, very hard, even just from a numbers perspective. So just to kind of remember that.

And the other thing is to kind of coach your team through that a little bit because they too have been carrying all excitement, kind of coming to this, this pinnacle, this, this huge event, this huge point. And they too are kind of feeling the same thing, like, oh, my goodness, we need to do this week in and week out.

So I think just a lot of even coaching up to that point with your team talking about expectations of launch, but then talk about expectations kind of after that A little bit. And especially just numbers and attendance wise and then definitely as it kind of depends on size of the church.

But I think that the am direct contact and relationship that members, that launch team members had with you may change and to kind of help to kind of prep them for that. It doesn't mean that after launch, all of a sudden you become this celebrity pastor that hides in their office, you never get to talk to anyone.

But it may be a little bit different than it was before, where every single phone call, you know, you can meet them for coffee for everything that's going on in their life, good, bad, indifferent, that now you're having to shift some of your time either to new people within the church or developing relationships more within the community.

Lee Stephenson: 00:03:36

Oh, that's great. And I do think you hit upon two real important expectations.

One, expectations of the relational connection with the pastor, but also just the size once you actually launch, how things are going to change, both good and challenging. Week two, week three. And now you kind of know, okay, this is really what we have to build from.

I'm reminded even now as we're preparing to launch this church here in Orlando, that the launch team phase is honestly, it's a little weird.

We're so ingrained in a normal church world that to liken it to how I've heard it said is you're in your garage trying to get a new business up and off the ground, and you're trying to get people invest their time, their money, all those different things to help get this new thing up and off the ground. And people have a hard time with that. Especially if you are not futuristic at all.

That that launch team phase for people that are not early adapters to kind of use that language is challenging. And so there is a challenging point, but we talked about previously the difference between core team versus launch team.

And that is a important distinction to have in those early days.

But I agree, I think you want to sit down with your launch team, you know, even weeks, preparing them before the launch with a real clear understanding of, hey, this is what it's going to take.

Like if you're in the children's ministry, it actually may be two or three months before you actually get into a service, because it's going to take that amount of time to reach and connect and help new people that have come in understand who you are, where you're going, how do you recruit them, how do you train them, then get them on a schedule and who's going to fill that gap in the midst of that And I know for you guys, you didn't actually start with children's ministry, did you?

Danny Parmelee: 00:05:29

No, it might have been. Actually, I don't think we even had babysitting at that time because it was mostly young couples without kids and college students.

So we didn't have a lot of children. And we started on Saturday night, so we didn't have a ton of families.

Lee Stephenson: 00:05:43

Yeah. What were some of those key teams that you pushed your launch team into so that they were prepared for that grand opening?

Danny Parmelee: 00:05:51

Yeah. So obviously, worship team type of stuff, and then kind of the connections or new people.

And then we, since we kind of started off with a small group base, we were really trying to point people either towards some sort of small group leadership, and then we did some community kind of outreach type of things.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:08

Let's talk a little bit on the small group going from launch team to church perspective, because that's something that we're doing as well, even right now. What did you do? How did you prepare? How did you get people plugged in?

What did small groups actually do during the launch size, and how did it change once you actually became a normal church?

Danny Parmelee: 00:06:27

Yeah, so I wish I could say that I had this all planned out perfectly, but it did actually work out well for us, is that we. We had really started with kind of small group multiplication.

So when I first came into town, started a men's small group, which eventually multiplied into two men's small groups. And then because of girlfriends and spouses, those multiplied into four. So we had four different small groups before we ever launched.

And so for us, it was kind of this seamless thing, and it was actually part of our DNA. And because we didn't have kids, like there weren't a lot of children, it made it easier to kind of multiply these small groups.

So it basically then once we launch, we encourage other people join one of these four small groups, which then quickly became five small groups and six small groups, and kind of really continued to be kind of at the heart of our small groups ministry, which the reason I say that, I wish I would have. You know, I didn't plan it that way. It's just the way that it kind of happened.

For a lot of guys, if they don't start small groups until way later, like maybe even a year into the church, it's just an uphill battle if it's not part of the culture already.

Lee Stephenson: 00:07:36

So what. What did.

From a curriculum standpoint, what were your groups doing in the early phase and did it stay the same once you actually launched or did it actually change?

Danny Parmelee: 00:07:46

Yeah, so it stayed the same from launch. So from the beginning we kind of went through books of the Bible.

And so for me, I literally wrote it the night after the sermon and kind of questions. Wrote, wrote, basically here's, here's six to eight.

Lee Stephenson: 00:08:02

Nothing like wait until the last minute, man.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:04

So well, I didn't know exactly what my sermon was going to be about until that maybe that Saturday morning. So that has definitely changed over time. But it really did for us again set the pace in the culture that small groups.

We did sermon based small groups which again became hugely a part of our DNA. And again, it was honestly just kind of what I thought I was supposed to do. And we kind of just did.

And it became something now it became more robust. But for me, especially in the beginning, it wasn't even just about Bible training type of thing. I just, I wanted people to get together.

And this was the easiest way to kind of say, well, here's a way that is reproducible for us because it wouldn't matter then if we had 6 small groups or 10 small groups or 20 small groups. There was kind of that curriculum that was being generated really for everyone to go through the exact, exact same thing.

So we would do that through the school year. We kind of followed our church calendar, really followed the school year.

And then the summer it was a little bit kind of more open for people to do whatever they wanted and they did whatever Hot Topic or whatever they wanted to do or whatever the Bible study that was kind of floating around out there, fun to do. People would do that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:16

No, that's great. We're actually similar thing. First church plant.

Small groups were a major part early on and getting them to pray, getting them to talk about even in their group setting what is to come help build the excitement towards the actual grand opening. This time around we're actually, we just call them launch groups. And so they're small groups getting them used to.

But they understand that once the grand opening comes and we transition into normal church kind of rhythms and the calendar year that the launch group, this goal is to split. And the language that we're using is like the launch phase is Acts 1 grand opening and beyond is Acts 2.

And so we, we know at least this time around Acts two is coming. And so the Acts one scene is us preparing ourselves, our heart, everything for Acts 2. When it does show up, that's great.

And, and so we're praying with big expectations that God will do great once that. But helping them understand like this is Fun, but we don't exist for us.

We exist for those that aren't here yet and really building momentum so that that grand opening is exciting, fun, high energy, but helping them understand, like your goal is now to connect with new people when they walk in the door, build a relationship, help them feel comfortable. We as a pastor can only do so much and so it's going to take a team in order for us to be able to do this.

Danny Parmelee: 00:10:46

Yeah.

When you're launching, one of my questions is how do you create space for new people right away so that it's hey, you may become part of this church, but again, they're only there one Sunday.

Do you already invite them in to say, hey, we've got opportunity not only to participate in small groups, but lead or volunteer in these other things. How do you, how do you, how are you guys approaching that?

Lee Stephenson: 00:11:13

Great question. I think it's a combination of subliminal messaging and honest just ask.

And so there are even up on our website we already have like ways to get involved. And so it's just trying to build in our culture. This is kind of who we are.

It'll be in our kind of program that we get, we hand out to people and I don't know what you saw.

I know the first time we planned, I mean, people would walk out of the very first service we've ever done, grand opening, and they're going, I'm all in. Like, this is my church and how do I become a member? You know, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

I'm glad you're excited, but we need to kind of get to know you and you honestly, you don't know us.

Danny Parmelee: 00:11:51

And usually those people don't come back anyways, so.

Lee Stephenson: 00:11:53

Yeah, yeah. So that's exactly true.

But one of the things too that we will do is within that first month and then it'll become a monthly routine is we're just going to have a lunch with the pastors following the our service where it's just an opportunity for us to kind of share our stories. They get to know us.

But it gives me a chance to truly share the vision for the church where we're going and help them understand like you have a role, you have a story. God has uniquely wired you.

We want to help you unearth what that is and how to best use those gifts and to use the experiences that you've had in the past to further his kingdom. We really are focused on being gift oriented. Ministry versus warm body ministry.

Danny Parmelee: 00:12:40

I'll speak more to that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:12:41

What you mean Yeah, I think a lot of, I see it happen in a lot of churches across the board, whether or not it's a church plan or even an existing church where there's a need. And because there's a need, they will literally take whatever warm body we possibly can find to fill that gap, which.

Danny Parmelee: 00:12:56

Is often children's ministry, very often children's ministry.

Lee Stephenson: 00:13:00

And so one of the things that we've intentionally focused in on is we want to place people within their giftings, within their wirings.

Whether or not you're introvert, extrovert, whether or not you feel like you connect well with kids, or whether or not you're a techie, we want to help identify what those are, get you plugged into those specific areas.

Because long term we honestly know that that is going to be better for the church and it's going to be better for that individual that they're going to want to serve when they see God using them and working through their gifts.

Danny Parmelee: 00:13:35

How do you communicate that from the stage or do you not communicate that from the stage? How do you create that culture and ethos of gift based ministry instead of just need based?

Lee Stephenson: 00:13:45

Some of it is just saying it that way, you know, even from day one is helping understand, you know, there's been people have sacrifice given time, talents, treasure, all that in order for us to get to where we're at. We believe that this isn't it. We believe that God wants to do more and continue to take us further to reach more people and impact more people.

That means everybody. You got to find your spot and we want to help you engage, understand who you are.

And, and first step would be come to like a meet the pastors, a lunch with the pastors type of experience. From there then we try to onboard them into our discipleship process.

And I think the sooner that you can begin to talk about that pre launch you create the expectation that post launch this is who we are, this is how we operate. And for instance we kind of use a 4e process.

We said number one, everybody needs to engage spiritually in worship with Jesus daily and with other believers. And so that's the first step. Where are you at in that process? How are you taking inventory of where you're at in that?

So second of all is established. We want you to be established in godly relationships that are going to further and push you further along in your walk.

And then you figure out the bridge events.

How do you go from engaged with Jesus corporately and individually to now being established in group life is basically what it is from there, it's about being equipped. It's helping you understand your wiring, how God has gifted you, how you might be able to use those gifts to further the kingdom.

And then lastly is established. I mean, so equipped, it's empowered. So it's empowered now to use those ministries to continue the cycle in somebody else's life. Life.

So it's really about multiplication. Like, this is a cyclical thing. And we talk about it. It's a wheel, it's a tire. So the goal is to get this wheel moving and keep it moving.

And if we're not doing all four of those things in our own personal lives, we lose momentum.

Danny Parmelee: 00:15:51

I have a question about the transition from launch. In the beginning with launch team, the planter has a good amount of control, even over agenda harmony.

You're interviewing people you know, who's going to be on your team, who has leadership. At what point does that begin to loosen where now it's the leaders underneath you who are beginning to invite people to their team.

Do you have anything to that's either very specific in place or is that just the natural flow? Like, okay, well, once you have this launch team now, pretty soon I have to trust others to empower.

Or how do you keep it so that all sudden launch Sunday, you have a whole group of random people that show up that could just, you know.

Lee Stephenson: 00:16:37

Well, and they do. I mean, and I think we should do this probably as another podcast conversation sometime is the conversation about church plant weirdos.

Because the moment that you have your grand opening, it's like all the crazies, all the weirdos in your community are going to show up to your church and they're going to have their own agendas, they're going to have their own cultural beliefs. They're not necessarily wrong.

They may just be different than where you feel God is calling you as a leader in your church to kind of be in what gap to fill. I do think the more that you have some specifics written out from a culture standpoint, this is who we are, this is how we operate.

We'll help you fight some of those battles because honestly, that there are going to be battles that come out as a result.

People are going to want to do it this way or they're going to and you have to make a decision like, does that take away from our culture or is that adding to this culture? And that helps you understand what battles you need to fight. But I think you have to trickle those things into your leadership team as well.

And what will happen early on is they will come to you for the answers like hey my friend or so. And so I engaged. This is the conversation they're having with me. You will have to coach them and engage them. Well, is that who we are? Well, no.

So why didn't you have this conversation with them? And so you, you challenge them in their own personal leadership to lead those conversations.

And the more that you feel they feel like you're empowering, the better that they will do. But you got to make sure that they get it because honestly these things leak.

You know, vision leaks, culture leaks, people will forget, people's feelings get in the way. And so you, you do have to fight against those to preserve the culture that you believe that God has called you guys to, to establish.

Danny Parmelee: 00:18:21

Do you and people have different opinions on this? But what's your opinion on allowing new people, non Christians to serve in the church? Is that a yay or nay for you?

Lee Stephenson: 00:18:34

Depends on what position.

So upfront positions, you know, whether or not it'd be like teaching children's anything on stage from a upfront, leading people conversationally in singing. Yes, we would say my personal Ben is I want to see them believers.

If it's greeting people in the parking lot or at the front doors, helping out in office work during the week, filling in as a drummer or something like that, I really don't care. We look at that as an opportunity to, to bring them in on the journey with us.

And you know, I had greeters that I'm I'm sure didn't quite know who Christ was and had crossed that line early on in the our church plan and even at different seasons.

But I have seen them get it and make decisions and begin to follow Christ and their entire life change because we allowed them to belong before they technically believed.

Danny Parmelee: 00:19:32

Yeah. Have you.

Lee Stephenson: 00:19:34

What do you guys do?

Danny Parmelee: 00:19:35

Yeah, we throwing you the question. I'm trying to think back. I think that we were all over the board and there was times we're like, no, you know, it's got to be.

They have to be a believer. Everybody does. Because it would be unfair. And then it's like, wait, it's unfair to have it be this position.

And then we eventually came to play as like it is going to be unfair. So we just have to figure out and to use discernment. And we wanted to codify it.

We wanted it to be black and white for every situation and we just realized it never was. And that church just isn't black and white just isn't.

And that are there going to be hurt feelings and hard discussions along the way because of that. And then we figured out, yep, that's going to be. So it we. Not that we take it case by case, but we would essentially kind of look at some different.

Some different things that way.

Lee Stephenson: 00:20:24

That's great. That's great.

I think the biggest takeaway in preparing your launch team for the grand opening and post grand opening is really, you do need to clarify the expectations. Not having key conversations ahead of time probably will backfire.

You backfire on you, you know, week two, week three, week four, even into six months later, if you don't help them understand, like, this is why we exist as a launch team, this is where we're going, things will radically change and really clarify that for your team. And that'll be helpful.

Danny Parmelee: 00:20:58

Yeah.

And I think just encouraging honesty, because as much as people say, oh, I'm so excited and I want all these new people, and if there's new people, I know that that'll mean change for me, and I'm all about that. And then when the change actually happens, they feel it and then they don't want.

Lee Stephenson: 00:21:16

This is different than I thought.

Danny Parmelee: 00:21:18

And to just encourage honesty, say, hey, you can tell me. Like, man, it just feels like we haven't, you know, talked as much. And it's not always even just relationship with a pastor.

It can be relationship with other team members and just encouraging honesty because I, and I think we've.

I've said this before in other podcasts and we'll continue to say it is that people then want to have a justified reason so they'll make up, like, subconsciously make stuff up, like, oh, I don't think I fit here because the theology isn't good, or I mean literally, like, make stuff up. Excuse me. Instead of just being honest that there's change and that the change is hard for them.

Lee Stephenson: 00:21:56

So, yeah, great, guys, thanks so much for being with us for this edition of Unfiltered Podcast Real Church Planning Conversations. Till next time, keep it real, guys.