Picking a facility: theaters & schools

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:00

Hey everyone. Lee Stevenson here with the unfiltered podcast. Glad to be with you. We're having real conversations about church planting today.

And here's my co host over here. Say hey, Danny.

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:17

I'm Danny Parmele and I oversee church planting for Converge Mid America. And we are going to do a two session podcast talking about picking that facility. And church planners usually love this part of the process.

Honestly, sometimes they get going on this a little bit earlier than they should and they need to be working on people and other things, but it is very, very important. Where are you going to gather for your Sunday services? So we're going to break it up into two different podcasts.

Today we're going to be talking specifically about theaters and schools. And then our next podcast we're going to be talking about renting from another church and then the storefront slash kind of warehouse option.

And so why don't we start out. Lee, why don't you tell us a little bit too kind of going through some of the pros and cons, things to look for in a theater setting.

I know that you started in a theater for years and some of the things that worked well or maybe even how you landed there as you were kind of looking at different options.

Lee Stephenson: 00:01:16

Great question. We actually relocated where we thought we were going to be planning the church based on the facility that we became open.

We thought we were going to be on one area of the Phoenix metro area. When we planted our first church and we just couldn't get a facility. It wasn't that we didn't try.

It was just like God didn't give us that opportunity. And so then we began to rethink, like maybe he's moving us into a different direction.

And I began to dream and think through, like, what, you know, strategically, what part of the city would be a good spot. And just started driving the area and saw this movie theater, brand new movie theater, right kind of the center of where everybody drove by.

And so we knew street exposure would be phenomenal. Everybody knew where that theater was. And so it literally just called the theater and said, hey, this is who I am.

This is what I'm interested in doing. And he thought about that and they said, absolutely, we'd love to be able to rent to you. And that's the benefit.

Like movie theaters typically want to work with you because that's a dead time. They're not usually showing movies on Sunday morning.

And so the idea that they could make income when the movies aren't being played, they're usually all four. There were some huge bonuses that I look back and go, man, I love doing church in a movie theater. Like, it was fun. Lobby space was massive.

So we had no issues from a lobby. Parking, never an issue. Lots of ins and outs and places for people to come park. It was a new theater, so it had a good vibe.

Movie theaters can kind of have different grades where you can have one that's phenomenal and you can get the dollar, the ones that had their heyday and that I would, I would encourage you probably stay away from those kind because people will connect your church with whatever that kind of movie theater is known for. But the nice thing too is like seats. I mean, you're never going to have that comfortable seat ever again in a movie theater.

Now I would encourage you, like, you do need to pay attention. Like, now movie theaters are moving to those recliners.

Danny Parmelee: 00:03:16

Okay. So I, yeah, I literally went to a church plant where they had those. It was so distracting because, I mean, it literally was so weird.

Lee Stephenson: 00:03:25

Everybody back and feet up in the air type of.

Danny Parmelee: 00:03:28

Yes.

Lee Stephenson: 00:03:29

So I would probably not encourage you to go to that kind of movie theater just because it, number one, it does limit your actual number seats. But number two, whether or not people actually stay engaged. So toll. Never another thing. But we actually. You want to.

If you're looking at a movie theater, you want to be in a movie theater where you can get multiple movie theaters and be able to expand the church as the church grows. So we, by the time we left the movie theater, about two years into our first church plant, we were renting four theaters on a Sunday morning.

Now the challenge. There are challenges that exist with the movie theater. Like, you have a very narrow amount of time that you can actually meet.

Most movie theaters are like, you need to be out at this point of the day because we need that theater space for movie. And I know in our case we would get charged double if we went over that allotted time that we were allowed to be in there.

theater and had to be out by: 11:00

Of does this, can this work in our community? The other things that work about the movie theater. Sound. They're made for sound. They're made. They handle lighting well. Screen.

You don't need to set up a screen. You got a massive screen in there and you usually can use that. We did find that with a movie theater. A couple of the other challenges were.

One, when it came to setting up children's space, it does limit you. You have to use that space maybe right in front of the screen or kind of if it has a ledge. That ledge as well.

Danny Parmelee: 00:05:06

Yeah. Can you talk about that a little bit? Because, I mean, I rem.

When I was hearing of people saying, yeah, we're planting in a movie theater, I'm like, well, where do you actually put the kids?

Lee Stephenson: 00:05:15

Yeah, the theater we were in had all stadium seating. And so they. Stadium seating.

Movie theaters have like the initial walk in ledge where it would be conducive to those in a wheelchair and stuff of that sort to be able to park to watch a movie. Then you have that space right down in front of the screen. So we maximize both of those areas.

So it may be like a teaching area is going to be here and then play area will be here. And depending on the size of the classroom, how many kids we'd move that way. Same thing when it came to nursery.

But one of the things you got to think about is movie theater floors are kind of nasty. And even if they have cleaners come in the night before, there's still popcorn here and there.

And the last thing you want is a two year old crawling over and picking up a nasty old piece of popcorn, sticking that in their mouth. So we literally put rugs. We put kind of that interlocking floor system down over top of the carpet where we knew it was clean and kept clean.

We bought extra vacuums and just vacuumed the space up ourselves as well. And then we actually baby gate it.

So like in the younger kids, we actually put baby gates all the way around to create a perimeter that we knew like the kids had to stay in that space.

Danny Parmelee: 00:06:26

So did you have. Are you saying. So you had one. The, the one main session is where you did worship. And the other three.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:33

The other three were for children's ministry.

Danny Parmelee: 00:06:35

Kids ministry, yeah. And were they broken apart? So each room had maybe a couple different age groups.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:44

Yeah. So we had like, I think it was under two was in one movie theater. Then we had kind of that. I don't know, it's older toddler range.

So probably like three through kindergarten. We're in another. And then all the elementary were in another movie theater. And the nice thing was like, you can block off the hallway.

So if you know, you like, I've got these three theaters.

Danny Parmelee: 00:07:08

Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: 00:07:09

Over here in this, this side of the complex, you can actually block it off with your tables and Create a really nice secure space that parents have to come through in order to drop or pick up their child. The other thing that was a limiter in some ways was the electric. The how many plugins and how much electricity you could put.

When it came to running sound systems, instruments, lighting, all that, we got permission by the movie theater to just pay an electrician to come in and run extra power.

Danny Parmelee: 00:07:40

Okay.

Lee Stephenson: 00:07:41

And we just said that's a gift to you. And so that. That they were more than happy to allow us to do that. And so that was a benefit that would be a creative way to think about it.

The other thing is our movie theater allowed us to store all of our equipment during the week in the theater. They had plenty of space.

The what you may not be aware of, and I didn't know this until we got working with the movie theater, is that the projector rooms isn't really each individual room based per theater. It was just a long, big corridor that had all these different projectors and made it easy for the workers.

They could just walk through the corridor, flip on or flip off all the projectors at one time. Well, that's just dead space. And so they allowed us to store all of our equipment in that corridor.

And there was an elevator that would go up and down to that space. And so for us in Arizona at the time, being able to store all of our equipment inside, not in the heat was a huge. With no extra cost.

Like it didn't cost us anything extra. Now, movie theaters are expensive because you aren't setting up, you know, chairs, you're not setting up those type of things.

But we were, you love on the staff, take care of the staff. I mean, they've been over backwards for us. There were days like they just donated popcorn to the church and allow us to do very special things.

We even got to the point where we were able to rent out.

Now we had to pay for it, but we rented out movie theaters and actually had Christmas Eve service at the movie theater at the same time they're showing movies, you know, and our greeting teams out there welcoming people to the movie. And sometimes they'd even talk somebody out of their movie to actually coming into church, into church, which was crazy that they. They could do that.

But we were able to work out a real good relationship with. With the theater.

Danny Parmelee: 00:09:21

Do you remember cost wise, I know it obviously it's so relative to, you know, from. From place to place, even just ballparking it.

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:29

Ballpark figure. What we spent 10 years ago was $1,000 a weekend okay.

And that was for the four theaters, and it wasn't the biggest movie theaters, so they wouldn't give us access to like their largest space. The big one that we use for adults, maximum capacity was 220seats, and that included handicap spaces and all that that honestly you weren't using.

And you know, nobody's sitting in the front row, that kind of stuff. So honestly we probably had 200 seats that we could actually use and then max that we could fill out would be 80% full, really.

Danny Parmelee: 00:10:01

Right, cool.

Lee Stephenson: 00:10:03

So I'm a fan of the movie theater, but you just need to know some awareness of what you're getting into when it comes to that.

Danny Parmelee: 00:10:10

One other question of clarification. You said that you use their screen. Like what did you bring in for your own sound and lights? And what did you use there?

When you meant user screen, did you just mean the white space?

Lee Stephenson: 00:10:22

Yeah, the big white screen that they have at the front of the.

Danny Parmelee: 00:10:24

You had your own projector.

Lee Stephenson: 00:10:26

Yeah. You had to use your own projector.

And we got some good coaching because we, we thought we needed like two projectors and maximize like we wanted this massive screen.

And I'm so glad we paid for some consulting on that one because they came to us and said, actually you can accomplish what you want to accomplish with one projector and just spend the money on light and you can frame out the picture and stuff of that sort. The space is not being used by using extra lights. And honestly it saved us money and saved us set up time.

We did have to spend a little extra money to get a special lens to be able to shoot from the back of the movie theater all the way down to that screen. But that's money well spent.

Otherwise you could put in the projector right in the middle of the movie theater and people walk through it and all that kind of stuff. And so figure out, you know, take some time, practice, figure those out before you actually move into, into that space.

Danny Parmelee: 00:11:23

Yeah, you had mentioned that a lot of movie theaters, not like you have to beg and plead because for a lot of them it's, it's an income kind of a revenue stream. I don't remember the name of which company it is, but they actually have one that's special for church plans that you can literally go on.

Lee Stephenson: 00:11:38

Regal.

Danny Parmelee: 00:11:39

Right?

Lee Stephenson: 00:11:40

It's Regal Theaters and they actually have a department, a part of their staffing system that is made to work with churches to help churches come in. And so they call them Fathom events as well. So. But Regal Theaters, you can look it up.

Danny Parmelee: 00:11:56

And you can look that up.

Lee Stephenson: 00:11:56

They can look it up. And they have contact that you can go right to and begin to have those conversations. And I met the guys. They're great guys to work with.

Regal is owned by Christians, and he just had a heart for using his assets to help build the kingdom. And so that's why they created this outfit, to be able to partner with the local church to do that.

Danny Parmelee: 00:12:14

Very cool. All right, let's talk about schools a little bit. Did you say you were in a school?

Lee Stephenson: 00:12:18

Yeah, we did school as well. And I'm a fan of schools in certain scenarios. So not all schools are worth the money or the opportunity.

I've been to some church plants in schools that honestly, it's been a disaster for that church. And it simply came down to they picked the wrong location. And so why don't we talk a little bit?

Just personal experience, what you've seen others, you know, when you visited church plants, guys you've coached. And same here for us. I'll talk from some of our personal experience.

I know, like, if you're going to go into a school, high school should be the first one that you talk to. Are you going to pay more? Yes. But it's. It's worth that extra money to be in high school because high schools are centrally located in the community.

Everybody knows where the high school is. It's easy to get to. It's usually on the main street where everybody's driving by. Parking is never an issue in a high school.

Most high schools in America have some type of performing arts facility. And so it's a professional facility dedicated for that. I know, like in our situation, it actually became a hindrance.

performing arts facility was: 1300

Danny Parmelee: 00:13:36

Too big.

Lee Stephenson: 00:13:37

It was too big for us. It didn't matter what we did. It just. The. The. The room itself was. Just swallowed us up. And you can pipe and drape all you want is. It's still.

It's still going to feel that way. People know, oh, you're just covering up it with pipe and drape, you know?

Danny Parmelee: 00:13:52

Yeah, I think the same thing.

Schools, I think the big opportunity, our opportunities lie that if you can be connected to the school actually with tutoring or with the sports or whatever, that you're not just using other facilities. So there's a huge upside there.

ame challenges. It was also a: 1300

Even though when you have a lot of people in there, it just. It changes the dynamic. And no matter what you do.

The other thing is it was such a large school that people had to park and this is Wisconsin winters and like, walk very, very far just to finally get in. Or they came in through a hallway that was empty and they were literally walking through this, like, weird hallway for way too long.

So just kind of thinking through some of those things.

Lee Stephenson: 00:14:50

Yeah. And even to piggyback on that, I remember I visited a church plant and it was fitting. Their name was Second Mile Church.

And the auditorium was in one spot of the campus. And the children were put in the cafeteria, which was completely on the other side of the campus. And they used to joke about it. Yeah.

We say you have to walk a second mile to go pick up your kids.

Danny Parmelee: 00:15:12

Exactly.

Lee Stephenson: 00:15:12

And it was. But it was true. Like, it was a long walk. Just go from point A to point B.

Well, that can become a distraction and make it difficult as well for people to stay and stay connected.

Danny Parmelee: 00:15:21

Yeah. And with children's. I would say with schools, rarely do you get classrooms. Teachers are pretty protective of that and. And don't want that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:15:31

And if you do, like, you've got to.

Danny Parmelee: 00:15:32

Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: 00:15:33

Show some extra love towards that teacher. You know, goodie bags and food, gift cards, all that. Yes.

Danny Parmelee: 00:15:39

But you can convert. You can convert cafeterias. You can create those types of space.

Lee Stephenson: 00:15:45

And even maximize hallway space. I know some school districts, like, they won't charge for hallway space.

And if you're creative, you can create your classrooms using the hallway system without ever having to actually be into a classroom. And I've seen it done and done very, very well from time to time.

Danny Parmelee: 00:16:01

Yeah. So advantages for schools. Definitely. You know, a lot of times there's going to be that parking advantage for it. You do have a lot of space.

Lobby can be good, depending, you know, but again, that's another one where sometimes to create the environment, you need pipe and drape just to cover up the trophy cases and the, you know, pottery paint or the weird pain and. And the murals and everything just to kind of like, get people to focus. Like, oh, I'm new here. This is where I'm supposed to kind of start.

Lee Stephenson: 00:16:33

And I would think too, like, if you go to a middle school, it's going to be cheaper than a high school. Same thing with an elementary school. Like, if you go into an elementary school, it's going to be cheaper than the any other school options.

So I see a lot of times planters by default will make that decision to go into an elementary school simply because of the value of the dollar, that it's more conducive to their budget. But the challenge of that, again, is parking.

I mean, elementary schools and middle schools aren't planning for their children, the students to drive to school, so they just don't have as much parking available. And I know, like most elementary schools, it's a cafetorium. They don't actually have a gymnasium or performing arts facility.

So you have a low ceiling. The place smells of lunch, food and really, honestly.

Danny Parmelee: 00:17:21

Sloppy Joe's.

Lee Stephenson: 00:17:22

Yeah, Sloppy Joes and pizza and. Yeah. And you got food hanging from the ceilings or the kids have thrown the food up there.

And then a lot of times the churches just settle and use the cafetorium seating, which again, can become a distraction and a hindrance overall in the development of that church.

Danny Parmelee: 00:17:40

And I would say a trend that I've seen is it is becoming more and more difficult to actually rent schools. There's tons of separation of church and state stuff.

One of the school districts said, yep, you can have your worship services here, but you can take an offering. Oh, okay. Well, that's pretty much a little creative way to be like, nope, you cannot do it.

And to know who's actually making those decisions and where the money goes. So for a lot of the school districts, the money goes to the district and not the school.

So when the principal's giving you a tour, they don't want you there because they don't benefit. They don't see any of the income. Whereas if you're finding out, no, we get to rent here and that's going to be more income.

And, you know, we'll help put in the new computer lab or, you know, a new part of the playground and figuring out how you can make a relationship there. So I think. And that that's really for all of, you know, all of the different ones that we're looking at.

But even theaters and schools that we're looking at now is figuring out how it benefits them as well, needs to be partly in your mind as you're casting vision for them to kind of, you know, negotiate some sort of deal to do that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:18:51

No, that's good. And the other thing to think about, if you're doing an elementary or middle school, usually they are tucked away into a community.

And so if you're reaching, trying to reach people outside of that specific housing community, you're going to have a difficult time as well. And so be creative, think through it and find where people naturally drive as well. I'll help you find that key facility. Well, friends, it's been fun.

Great conversation. This part one of kind of choosing your facility. And we talked through the school, we talked through the movie theater options.

Tune in for session two as we pick up kind of talking through storefront, warehouse, industrial space as well benefits or the downside of some of the those type of facilities. It's been unfiltered. Real conversations about church planning. Guys, until next time, keep it real.