Scratching the 3-year itch

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:07

Welcome to our unfiltered podcast. My name is Lee Stevenson.

I have the joy of being executive director of church planning with Converge and allow my co host to introduce himself as well.

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:18

My name is Danny Parmalee and I oversee church planting for Converge Mid America.

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:23

And today we're going to talk a little bit about just boredom and when boredom sets in, in for church planters and specifically I would call it like the, the three year itch.

And, and what I mean by that, trying to define that is sometimes most planters wrestle through a season where they kind of come to a point and realize maybe I've, I've made it, maybe I've taken the church as far as I need to take it. And they have this itch to go do something again that really scratches that itch from what an entrepreneurial type of personality would, would have.

I know I faced it. I know, Danny, you face it at different times.

I'm sure you've had conversations with church planners as well, try and maybe even talk them off the edge and say, no, no, no, no, don't, don't go yet. What, what's kind of your own personal experience with that?

Danny Parmelee: 00:01:11

Yeah, well, I think this is looking back on it now, but just understanding maybe a little bit of what's happening at the core is that for a lot of church planters they do have kind of that entrepreneurial kind of apostolic gifting.

So at its core is probably a pretty positive God given wired where you're always looking for that kind of, that, that next thing and the thing that drew you to church planting that, that clean slate, the adventure, the risk. And so you say three year and I think that's a great because for a lot of guys this is where that begins to set in.

Maybe they got into a facility, maybe they've got into kind of a routine.

Even if they've seen kind of steady growth, they're missing some of those early elements that were, was the energizing kind of exciting parts of kind of planting a church. But for guys to just understand could come at, you know, that could be three years or five years, maybe even two years type of thing.

So understanding that at its core can be an okay kind of God given thing, but I think it's what you, what you do with it. And so for some guys, they automatically do think, all right, it's time to move on. I'm just going to, you know, take a job at another church.

I think that's what it was for me early on is especially as your church plant begins to grow others, kind of see your giftings and leadership.

And there's other pastors that are transitioning, like, oh, I want to replace myself with this younger guy who's had some success and you start to get some offers and your mind begins to kind of entertain, you know, the newness of that. And, and you begin to kind of maybe go down that path.

So, so that, you know, I'll let you kind of chime in there a little bit, but I just think that that's what a lot is kind of going on for a lot of these church planners and myself included.

Lee Stephenson: 00:02:57

Yeah. And I, I think. Yeah. And it's directly related.

Related to those that because they're entrepreneurial, because they have maybe an apostolic bent, that it's easy to allow boredom to set in when you've been at it for a certain period of time.

Or I noticed even in my own journey, that when you get to a place of permanency, you know, maybe we finally got into a building and we're not doing the portable church setup and you, you move beyond are we going to survive? You know, and now you're really at a life stage of sustainability that sometimes the adrenaline drops.

And I think in the church planners mindset, they miss maybe that adrenaline, that push that they got early on just to get this church up and going. And you know, the constant, are we going to make it? Are we going to be around next month? Are we going to make it next year?

And the newness of that, when that begins to wear off and fade, that there's this desire or this inkling going, man, maybe I need to go out and do this again. And sometimes it's easy to interpret the emotion or the lack of adrenaline as maybe this is what God is calling me to do.

Now, I do believe that there are times where God, yes, he does maybe raise up people from time to time.

I mean, Paul's an example of this where he spends a season here, gets a church, builds leadership, and then hands the church over to that local leadership and then he goes out and does it again. And so I know church planters that would definitely align that direction and say, no.

I know definitively that's how God's wired me and that's how God has called me to live in ministry. But I find that that's probably far and few between when it comes to an actual calling.

Danny Parmelee: 00:04:45

Yeah.

And I think that that's been a paradigm shift for at least kind of this generation of church planners where the kind of the generations before us, that was kind of the mode, plan a church, get it up and running two and a half years, and then go on to the next place. But I would say even our culture probably now values a little bit more of the perseverance and the longevity.

And so obviously there's pros and there's disadvantages to that as well. I think for me, what was helpful in my process and journey is that I had other outlets for the apostolic and entrepreneurial type of giftings.

And so I was able to start working with our regional and national church planting movement with Converge to help not only then our church plant, but to help coach and train other church planners, specifically in the areas of, you know, raising support, and then, you know, just some. Some general coaching things, and then to help later on with the actual official role within Convergent, our district in the area of recruitment.

And so in those early years, for me, that was helpful because even though there was, you know.

Well, I would never say sustainability, because for me, I felt like the whole thing could come crashing down, even up to the moment that I transitioned out of my. So there was always that adrenaline, like, are we going to make it?

But just to be able to use or not use, but to have a place where I was energized by the new frontier, you know, the, the starting a new ministry, being able to be you know, invested on kind of front lines of things. And so I. I encourage planters. Obviously, in the beginning, you're 100%, everything is focused.

You just need to focus on getting the church up and off, off the ground. But maybe there are some other outlets that. That God is kind of asking you, put some time into this, put some energy into this.

And for me, what happened is it actually ended up being a benefit to the church because I was learning things from other people, and it was kind of, you know, trickling down, pouring back into the church. And the things I was learning in the church were also an, you know, an advantage for the district and national movement as well.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:57

No, that's great. How.

How long in ministry were you, Danny, where you began to realize that God maybe has a more apostolic calling or gifting in how you're wired and, and how did that help you maybe navigate through some of those. Those time periods now knowing, like, I really believe that this is who I am and this was how I was wired to be?

Danny Parmelee: 00:07:18

Well, I think that, you know, in general, most church planters in the beginning kind of know or are told, hey, you have, you know, entrepreneurial, apostolic things. But for me, I just remember growing up that My, you know, I would, I would do a hobby. It was, you know, baseball cards and.

And then, you know, the next year it was coin collecting and then the next, it was raising tropical fish. And so anytime I wanted to do something, my parents were like, okay, because they're like, he's gonna change it in a year anyway.

So we'll just, we'll let them try anything. The only thing that didn't work with was hockey. They said, okay, we'll let them play hockey because we know this is just a. A fad or a phase.

That's the only one that, you know, that's that stuck. So honestly, I was nervous in planting the church that I would just, you know, get bored with it after two years. And again, this.

So we, you know, we moved in: 2004

But what allowed that is because I was doing those other things and then later on to be able to do multi site as well too, and to also be involved in other church plans. So there was always that fill that energy, that excitement of doing something new.

Yeah, you can engage that, be fulfilled in that and yet still have the longevity and continue to kind of overall, you know, you know, grow the church and stay in one location and not just up and leave and go, okay, well, time for something new. What's the new shiny thing?

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:00

So, sure, sure. No, I think that's great.

And I think part of the reason why we wanted to record this episode is to help people understand an awareness like it's absolutely normal in most lives of church planters.

Early on at some point to get an itch to go do something el, whether or not it's going to an existing church ministry, whether or not it's to plant again, maybe it's to get more involved in another avenue. My biggest recommendation, if you're kind of wrestling through that, number one, no, it's not abnormal.

Number two, make sure you're doing it not just because you're tired or that there's a fear factor kind of driving this. I think the third piece is you want to take a look at your heart and really begin to understand why am I attracted to this?

Is it because of kingdom opportunity or is it greed? And sometimes if we're honest with ourselves, it's a greed thing or it's a selfishness.

Thing that, that is driving that we want to move away from those things versus embracing those things in our life. And, but sometimes also you just want to spend some time praying it through and trust that God will lead you in that direction.

I remember it happened shortly after we moved into our permanent facility. I just, I had that inkling and I, I was afraid to talk to my wife about it and probably held off for two or three weeks.

And finally I'm like, what would you think about if we did this again? You know? And she looks at me and said, I'm just, I'm just talking like I, I need to get this out because this is what I'm feeling inside.

And I'm trying to decipher is this of the Lord or is this just, you know, me and knowing who I am? And I said, well, can you just pray with me about this and let's pray together.

And in that season, it's like God instantly removed it and I kind of was able to go, oh no, that was, this isn't right now. This is not what the Lord's calling us do. And it allowed me to be re energized and focus on the Lord.

Danny Parmelee: 00:10:57

You had mentioned greed and I would, you know, it's obviously connected, but ego as well too.

And like I said, you'll get, if you have some traction, you have some success, you will get tapped by other people to say, hey, would you consider this position? And usually at that time that ministry is larger than yours. So maybe you have your church plan up to 120 or 250.

If you're at 120, you're going to have a church of 200 asking you to lead their church and you're thinking, oh well that's maybe, you know, and they have the building or whatever. Or if you're at 250, 500 person church comes to you and says, hey, you know, our pastor's retiring or our pastor just move.

Would you consider, you know, doing this? And, and yeah, it's, it's, it's sometimes hard to separate and to go, okay, is this, is this God really moving?

Which again, sometimes God is prompting and moving, but to be able to discern that and say, or is this just me wanting the next thing or the next level, so to speak, of, of leadership that way. So it takes a lot of, a lot of discerning.

Lee Stephenson: 00:12:02

Oh, that's great.

And I think if, if the Lord is calling you to make that change, you want to really focus in and help make sure that the, the smoothest and the best transition can take place.

So the church thrives in the midst of the transition because it's going to be hard anytime that, that the founding pastor leaves it, it does leave a, a hole there, both relationally, but also just practically from a leadership standpoint. And so you want to pay attention to that and be above reproach in the way that you go about transitioning.

Danny Parmelee: 00:12:35

And one other thing I'd add, and this is something that, that my boss, Gary, has had numerous conversation with church planners before. If you're not in a building yet, it is very hard for the church plant to survive. Yeah. If they're not in the building.

So for a lot of, like, it may be just from a strategic standpoint or statistical standpoint to leave before you're in a little bit more of a permanent.

So there's just that really weird thing like when a church planter leaves and they're still kind of really in church planting mode and they're trying to hire another existing church pastor, but hybrid church plan. So if you can at least try to get them to a place of more, you know, permanent facility. Is. Is. Is often important.

Lee Stephenson: 00:13:24

Good word, man. I think that's a great thought.

Well, this kind of takes the moment we wrap up our conversation on transitioning, that itch that sometimes church planters face. As you are now a few years removed from the grand opening. Hope it's been insightful. Thanks for joining us with the unfiltered podcast.

My name is Lee and this is Danny. And until next time, keep it real, guys.