Adding a worship service

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:08

My name is Lee Stevenson. I get the privilege of being the executive director of church planning with Converge and my co host here. Say hey, Danny. Hey.

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:17

I'm Danny Parmelee and I oversee church planting for Converge Mid America.

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:21

And this is the unfiltered podcast.

Today we're going to be taking some time just talking about service services and specifically when is it time for a church, a church plant, to look at adding potential, another weekend service into the mix. Honestly, I mean, this is.

Danny, this is probably one of those things every church planter dreams of when we can move away from one service into two services, maybe we can get to two to three.

And, and so I want to take some time just talking about what have we learned over the years, what have we seen work, what have we experienced that didn't work when it came to adding services and even how do you go about it? So how do you announce it to the church?

Hey, you know, next week we're going to add a service or do we need to give a little bit more of a timeline to how we go about communicating that to our team, our leaders and make sure that we're planned accordingly across the board. So talk to us a little bit.

When you started, I'm assuming you were one service, at what point of the game did you decide, you know what, we need to go to two and then even beyond that?

Danny Parmelee: 00:01:23

Yeah, I don't remember the exact timeline when it was for us, but I think that my biggest takeaway or my biggest learning is as, as excited as I was the, the launch team and the other people were not. And I was just shocked at that. I was like, they're going to be so happy and excited that we've made it to this next step.

And you would have thought that I introduced like a fourth person to the Trinity type of thing. Like, like this, this can't be.

And what I didn't realize is that especially with that initial kind of launch team and the initial group of leaders, they were attracted to the church plant because it was one group, it was one family. A lot of tight knit stuff they had built their social life around.

In other words, hey, we're going to come to service, then we're going to go out to breakfast together. In our case we were evening service.

So we're going to go out to dinner afterwards and if we have two services, how does that work, you know, type, type of thing. But I think that for us, and the other reason why it made it hard is because we still had open seats. Okay.

And so People's mentality within, even leaders and those on the launch team are, well, let's just continue to make this one service bigger and bigger and we'll just have people squish in and we'll just add more chairs and we'll just do everything we can to keep it one service. And so I think the other learning point is, I mean, it's a pretty commonly held thing that, you know, when you're at 80% capacity, you're.

You're essentially full. Like, yeah, psychologically, sociologically, that's what, like.

Lee Stephenson: 00:02:58

A family of four, if they came in late, would have a really difficult time finding seats together.

Danny Parmelee: 00:03:02

Yeah. And they wouldn't say, oh, there's not room for me here. But, you know, subconsciously they are.

So I do think that the planning, once you're at, you know, 70% is a, @ that point, it's a must. So, so at that point it's like you have to be thinking, how are you going to multiply? But it doesn't mean that you have to wait until you're 70%.

So I mean, obviously you can speak a little bit to your situation where you made that decision on the front end to say, well, we see the multiplication DNA by starting kind of from the beginning. There's some pros to that, some, you know, some, some cons that you can spe. But I just say that 70%, you're at a must.

But also to be thinking beforehand, how can this really help the health of the church and the growth of the church?

Lee Stephenson: 00:03:53

I think the biggest thing, one of the things you hit upon there, Danny, I think is critical that you do need to be planning ahead before you hit that moment, because when you hit that moment, you will stop growing unless you create necessary room for that.

The last two church plants that we've started, we intentionally started with two services, but we had to do a lot of pre work ahead of the game to get there.

So we had to have X amount of people on our launch team serving and basically told them, you're serving two services probably for six months in order for this to actually work. And it was a risk both times.

It's been a pretty major risk just jumping out there and going, I don't know if we're going to have people come to that hour. But we, we've seen it work in a, in a great way because I think partly people like options.

And so giving people in society an option, especially during sports season, like, hey, I can come to the early service and still get home and watch the football game or something of that sort lends itself to, to help you out. But critical mass can be an issue when it comes to building and creating the energy to be able to kind of move forward.

So I encourage you to be creative in that.

another facility and it was a: 1300

And there is no way we could have gone to two services in that because it would have been even worse than it was with just one service. Looking back on it, two services is ideal.

So the quicker you can get to two services, I think it's going to be helpful to you in reaching more people within the community. But the 80% rule holds true. When you hit that 80% rule, you need to now begin to think about adding that next service. Now the ratio does change.

So when you get to two services and both of those services, you may have to move people off of an early service that's more full in order to fill up that other service. But your goal is to get both of those services to an 80% feel and then you add a third service.

But once you get to that third service, you start moving out of kind of the most opportune times to do a Sunday or weekend experience. Your ratio is going to change.

So when you're at three, my advice is when you get to around 65 to 70%, that's when you need to be looking at launching a fourth, because you may never actually get that up to an 80% just as you've done the other ones.

Danny Parmelee: 00:06:30

Right? Yeah. And so I can speak to that even from example. So when we hit three services, we had two morning services and an evening service.

And so at that point, you know, people are thinking, well, we've got capacity to go, you know, as a 225 seat. So we'll be 225, 225 + 225. It doesn't work like that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:49

It doesn't work out.

Danny Parmelee: 00:06:50

. You know, the, the: 10:00

And you can't just sit there and wait for the evening service to fill up the, you know, extra 125 seats. It's like, okay, where do we put another four service? Because that one's kind of has, has reached its, its capacity that way.

So I, I think one of the biggest things in multiplying, especially going from 1 to 2, is even the fear of the pastor, the, the planter of losing that momentum because you will, even though the church will grow because of it, the church will become more healthy because of the need for true leadership development and leaders rising up.

Even if you're, you know, you've got a 150 seat capacity and you're Allison at 100 people and the thought of like splitting up into two services of, you know, 75 and 75 and it just sucks the wind.

And you love preaching to a, a big crowd to just work through that, to be honest about it with, with yourself and then also to prepare your people because as I said before, there might be some resistance to that. And, and you also have two services that aren't as high energy, aren't as exciting as what you were before.

But after you get over that hump and that two services that you know are 75 each climb up to 100, 125 each, you get that back and then you have so much more foundation and leverage. And like you said, you're, you're reaching more people that way. So it is, it is difficult.

It's not an easy thing, thing emotionally to do, but to kind of walk yourself through that and then definitely be walking your leaders and your launch team through that and say hey, it's going to feel a little different. And also you combine that with hitting summer months. So the other thing I'd say is timing on that. When do you time to actually multiply?

And that's, we're thinking ahead, try to.

Lee Stephenson: 00:08:55

Hit those growth momentum seasons for sure.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:58

The other thing I'd say is if you have a, if you've got a time, let's say you've got your service and you've picked the ideal time of 10 o'clock and you need to go to two services instead of adding an eight is to switch the time of both because otherwise people that are in that routine will come and you add the 8 or the 8:30 and you're going to have 10 people show up.

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:24

Everybody shows up at 10 still.

Danny Parmelee: 00:09:26

to: 10:30

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:32

Yeah, everyone has to make a decision. Absolutely.

Danny Parmelee: 00:09:34

Otherwise you'll have a totally uneven. And then again people that were kind of against the idea of multiplying service. I see. Told you we just needed a couple people to scoot in.

We could just scoot in and you know, add those 8:30 people to this service and then it would be like it was before, kind of in the past. And so definitely a lot of different things to navigate.

But you know, overall, you know, again, not even just a church grow thing, but I think it sets multiplication right from the get go of saying hey, this isn't, this isn't about us. And it's going to force people to have to step up and to lead.

Lee Stephenson: 00:10:14

So yeah, well said.

And the reality anytime you go from one service to two or two to three and so on, and you are creating a crisis, which honestly is a good crisis in the life of the church because it does force people to step up into different roles, you know, to evaluate their volunteer they're serving.

And you'll see some guys and women really blossom in their leadership capacity in those moments because you created space for people to have to step into and begin to lead at a different level. When you've gone from 1 to 2, 2 to 3, how did you go about communicating that to the church, to your leaders? Was there a strategy involved?

Or did you just stand up one Sunday and say, hey guess what, next week we're adding a service?

Danny Parmelee: 00:11:01

Ye, I can't remember. But it might have been that second one.

Because again, what I didn't realize early on in church plan, probably even the first up to five years, is that I have things going on in my head that are developing over a long period of time and I just have this false sense that everyone is doing that same development. So even though I've thought it through and been been thinking about it, other people have not been.

And so I probably did is thinking hey, I'm just going to announce this and then people just shift and do what they're supposed to.

So I do think giving people lots of time and explaining the why behind it over and over and over again and also setting up realistic expectations so to say, hey, we know that this is, you know, it's going to be a little bit lower energy, but the reason we're doing this is so that we can reach more people for Christ. The reason that we're doing this is because it's going to provide more leadership opportunities for people.

The reason we're doing this is so that people can serve one and worship at one and that we don't have someone who's in the children's ministry in our one service and they never get to be part of the regular worship service.

So hitting that why over and over and over again and then they get it and Then so the next time when you multiply a service or you multiply a site or you plant another church, those same why things are being answered during that time as well.

Lee Stephenson: 00:12:26

So yeah, yeah, well said.

And I would encourage you, there is a think through it strategically bring in your key leaders, bring in your small group leaders, allow them to have insider information before you launch this out to the congregation so they have an understanding and awareness. This is what's going to happen, this is why it's necessary. So they become spokesman for the change versus against the change.

And that can actually add momentum and it's helpful for them to begin to think through, oh yeah, I need to change this in order for this to be able to take place as well. I would add into that mix.

Your children's ministry needs to be educated and brought into the loop far in advance of adding that service because of any area that's really going to affect the most is probably the children's ministry and the children's volunteers.

And so allow them to speak into it, allow them to voice their concerns, but also utilize them to reach out and recruit other volunteers to help fill the gaps as you begin to add to those service times. And then the last thing I would encourage you to do is when you're looking at adding a service, just stand up during the announcements.

Hey guys, I would try to leverage it four to six weeks in advance before you actually pull the trigger and make, make the change. Just tell people, this is why this is where we're going. This is why it's necessary.

And then ask for volunteers, say we're going to change the service time, say from 10, you know, one service at 10 to now we're going to be at 9:30, 11 or something of that sort. Say, I need, you know, 50 of you right now to commit to going to the 9:30 service. And then literally have them raise a hand during the service.

And that extra level of commitment will. They'll follow through on it much more likely than they would if you just say, hey, I need 50 people.

And everybody will assume, oh, it's a different 50 people. It doesn't include me. And. And that'll make that change so much more significant and easier to, yeah, that's great.

Danny Parmelee: 00:14:31

And then take your iPhone and snap a picture of that real quick just so you guys got proof.

Lee Stephenson: 00:14:36

Yeah, I tell guys all the time, like when you do that, like it's okay to be awkward, like allow silence because people will just kind of look around and just tell them, like, I've got time, guys. So I'm serious about this. And then they'll realize, oh, you are serious. And people will begin to blame.

Danny Parmelee: 00:14:52

One other thing too, Lee, is whenever possible, make sure that the services are duplicated. So one of the mistakes I've seen is when people go from one service to two and they say, all right, well, we need more space.

So we'll do a morning service, but that one won't have any children's programming at it. Or that one will have a, you know, different pastor preaching. Or we'll have the. Whatever, I don't know, youth intern do the. It's like you. You got it.

You really do have to duplicate them.

Otherwise what you're going to create is you're just going to create this kind of, I don't know, separate little service that is never going to get off the ground. It's not, it's not really multiplication type of thing. And. And then you'll have that lopsided again where everybody.

Majority of people, and there's only a few people that kind of feel forced and it's kind of like the leftovers type of thing. So.

Lee Stephenson: 00:15:44

Yeah, yeah. And I. And just another thing, I found it was easier for us to do four services on the weekend than three services.

Three services was difficult to figure out the volunteer rhythm and four was a whole lot easier for that.

But one of the things we found, like even when we started Saturday night services knowing that we were heading into a low season, so we started when we did Saturday nights. We started with two. We went from three on Sunday to two on Sunday, two on Saturday.

We did that on Easter and we just continued to maintain it post Easter. We had incentivized people to come to Saturday night all summer.

And so what we ended up doing was we just brought food trucks in every Saturday night. And so that incentivized.

And actually our attendance during the Saturday night went up over the summer because people just enjoyed being able to have that extra time to hang out and eat together.

Danny Parmelee: 00:16:38

And I know we're running out of time here a little bit, but let me just give my. Why I hate Saturday nights and why I love Saturday night services. Which, which we did.

I hate them because it's really hard for the pastor because your weekend. Yeah, it's. It's a whole extra day.

Lee Stephenson: 00:16:56

Really.

Danny Parmelee: 00:16:56

Yeah. On all the staff and everybody who's. Yeah. Who's. Who's having to do that. The.

The advantage is if you ever do go to a multi site model to be able to use your Saturday night for video, even if you're doing. If you're using video for a multi site application, you can capture that on Saturday and you have much easier delivery.

Don't have to worry about having to stream and do all of that. So that's a whole nother conversation.

But man, Saturday nights when I, when I hear Planters talk about that, I, you know, start to convulse just a little bit. And yet there's a, there's a, there's a strategic opportunity there, but it's also one that has its, has its challenges certainly.

Lee Stephenson: 00:17:36

So that's good. That's good.

And I think even another topic we'll, we'll pick up in one of our later podcasts that I think goes along with this is how do you as a, as the lead pastor, maintain energy, doing multiple services?

And, and so I encourage you to kind of tune back in for that future podcast because I think it goes hand in hand with the conversation we're having here. Well, guys, it's been fun. Thanks for tuning in to the unfiltered podcast. And this has been Lee and Danny. Until next time, keep it real.