Talking politics

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:08

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the unfiltered podcast. My name is Lee Stevenson. I have the joy and privilege to serve Converge in the church planning office.

Danny Parmelee: 00:00:16

My name is Danny Parmelee and I oversee church planting for Converge Mid America.

Lee Stephenson: 00:00:20

And we're just having real conversations about church planting and the whole church world. And with election year upon us, I thought it'd be appropriate for us to just take a little bit of time and just talk about in church world.

And specifically, I think this is one of those questions. I know I wrestled with it. As a church planner, how much do you say about politics, if at all?

I know that there's certain leanings and bents where people say we just don't even touch it and we don't have conversations.

And then there's other that say, well, we'll do as much as we possibly can legally and not forfeit our, you know, tax benefits when it comes to what we say from the pulpit. What's your experience? How do you. What do you.

What do you draw from for you, Danny, in the past, how do you coach church planners today when it comes to this?

Danny Parmelee: 00:01:09

Yeah, Well, I do think that it does need to be addressed, only because it is such a cultural issue that you should at least say something about it and not completely ignore it.

Now, I don't mean tell people what your views are and who they should vote for, but maybe it's even a discipleship issue of teaching your people how they ought to engage culture. So, again, for me, I'm. I'm definitely going to be leaning on the side of stay out of it. If.

If your people don't know who you actually are going to vote for, that is actually maybe a good thing. You know, that you're not always dropping these little hands or you're just so overtly, hey, this is who you need to vote for type of thing. I would.

I'm going to lean on the fact that that's probably a good thing, but not to the point where you just ignore it completely and you're oblivious and your head's in the sand and you're not speaking because people are wanting to know they're looking for leadership in this area. How about you? How have you done this in the past?

Lee Stephenson: 00:02:09

I would say probably a similar approach. I always address certain issues from a biblical standpoint.

I think it's appropriate to be able to acknowledge the fact, guys, we live in a privileged country. The fact that we can come and we can worship together is a fantastic thing. The fact that we have the right to Vote, don't take that lightly.

And so with the election coming upon us, do your research, do homework.

Like, I think sometimes you got to walk your people through what the appropriate steps are and tell them, you know, check out the issues and research them, not just on what you personally favor, what does the Bible actually teach. And try to allow the Bible to be your grid as to who you're going to vote for. And don't just focus on one small snippet, focus on the whole.

But I always like to challenge our people as well, that part of our freedoms in our country is we have the ability to vocalize and, and to say things without major repercussion. There's a freedom of speech, but as a Christian, you don't have the right to be mean.

And so don't lean so hard into your liberties of what the nation does that you lose sight of what it means to be a Christian witness in the midst of this season.

Danny Parmelee: 00:03:34

Yeah, absolutely.

And I would maybe even take it a step further that even if you're saying things nice sometimes because of the divisiveness of this nation, by simply proclaiming who you are and who you're voting for and even why, you sometimes lose the opportunity then to share Christ with someone else.

So let's say you are a Democrat and you are a strong Democrat and your neighbor is a strong Republican simply by you just letting them know that you're a Democrat and putting that sign in the front yard. You've now closed off that conversation. Now again, maybe some would say that.

Lee Stephenson: 00:04:09

Would be at least in this season of politics, at least in this country politics.

Danny Parmelee: 00:04:12

Or just to maybe even ask yourself the question, what's more important for me to proclaim? Is it to proclaim Christ or to proclaim the candidate or party that I am a part of?

Lee Stephenson: 00:04:25

No, I think that's great advice and I would encourage pastors like that is the discipleship thing.

Like that's what you've got to walk your people through and helping them understand and even understanding social media, like be careful what you post and how you post it because you don't want to create, you know, fences that keep people from engaging the conversation that ultimately could be an eternal thing in their own personal life. Being able to come to know who Jesus is just simply because of the red versus blue type of conversations.

Danny Parmelee: 00:05:00

Right.

And I do think it's, it's, you know, it's become difficult partly just because right wing conservative has kind of been, you know, lumped in or sought as being. That's what the Church believes in order to be a Christian, this is what you believe.

And then more importantly, people from the outside just assume that. And so it does put us in kind of a, you know, a predicament, if you will, in this kind of day and age.

Lee Stephenson: 00:05:28

But, and I think the other piece, when it comes to the political world and the political conversations, if you have the opportunity to allow your church building to use as a polling site, it is.

It actually provides a great opportunity to be able to connect and to love people and give people an opportunity to actually walk into your, Your building and see what you're doing. And so consider, you know, using those options to your disposal, if possible as well.

Danny Parmelee: 00:05:53

Yeah. Awesome. So have you. Do you have any good stories of either mistakes that you've made or times where you've chosen not to and saved yourself?

Man, I'm really glad I didn't. I didn't go down that road.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:06

I. I don't think I've had any too many nightmares. I do.

I think as I've grown and aged and matured, I think I've realized, like, there are probably moments I backed away from social justice things that probably would have been more appropriate for me to say something than to not say something.

Danny Parmelee: 00:06:26

Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: 00:06:27

I think specifically with some of the, the racism and challenges that we've seen come in our country, I do think that there's a moment where the pastors need to use a voice and to speak up for those that are facing some of the injustices that exist in our world. And. But there is a appropriate way and that you can address those conversations and not alienate everybody.

You know, and I think about it from both sides, you know, I, I want people of color in our churches.

But at the same time, you've got to think from the standpoint of I want police officers in my, in my congregation as well, and I want them to be able to get along in midst of the tension that they may be feeling. And so you've got to think of both sides of the conversation when you begin to engage that.

Danny Parmelee: 00:07:18

Absolutely. So I have a question. I have heard of churches and church planters who will bring either public servants or candidates in to pray for them.

Yay or nay on that. I mean, and actually, didn't. Didn't David Platt. Was that David Platt that just took some, some heat for that? I think maybe he had, well, come.

Lee Stephenson: 00:07:46

In or Trump actually came in, but didn't actually tell him ahead of time that he was coming. Okay. And so he's there.

Danny Parmelee: 00:07:54

Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: 00:07:54

So he's like I'm going to have him come up and pray for him. And I think, you know, given that kind of circumstances, that makes sense.

You know, if the president was going to walk into my church and kind of unannounced, I think you cannot not address it, you know, so. But I think that was an appropriate way to be able to address it.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:14

But, I mean, I can't tell you the amount of times the President of the United States has just waltzed and.

Lee Stephenson: 00:08:19

Hey, guys, I'm here.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:21

No big deal.

Lee Stephenson: 00:08:21

Yeah. But I. I do think. I don't want to go above and beyond just trying to get people always in the door that have a political climate.

But I think it is appropriate to remind people, like, you need to pray for those that are in public service, and if they happen to attend the church, I think it's okay to bring them up. And if they're in the church themselves and they call this their. Their home.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:46

Yeah. So, yeah, that. That may be.

Lee Stephenson: 00:08:48

I never had this issue. Okay.

Danny Parmelee: 00:08:51

So, yeah, so I was in Milwaukee and Governor Scott Walker was a believer. So, yeah, I mean, he was at services, not. He didn't. He wasn't a part of our church, but he was part of a church that we were connected with.

And when I had officiated a wedding that he was friends with the people, he was there. So it was kind of unique. Now, that's different because it's not bringing that. Bringing them up on. On stage. But. Yeah.

How do you do that when it's actually someone from your church that is running for political office and obviously every single vote and they're wanting everything? How do you deal with. How do you deal with that?

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:26

I think you do have to be careful of leveraging your voice and pushing people towards a specific candidate. But I think it's appropriate, you know, once maybe elected.

Danny Parmelee: 00:09:35

Yeah.

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:35

To be able to say, you know, because you can't campaign around the church.

Danny Parmelee: 00:09:39

Right.

Lee Stephenson: 00:09:39

That. I mean, I don't allow it when it comes to people selling business things and adventures, you know, in the church, why would I allow the political.

You know, I don't want signs and all that being placed outside the church. But at the same time, if they're elected and put into position, I think that's an appropriate time to say, hey, we.

We recognize that this person is going to be serving our community. We're thankful for that, and we want to just pray for God's wisdom over them.

Danny Parmelee: 00:10:05

That's great. All right, before we close here, was Jesus a Democrat or Republican?

Lee Stephenson: 00:10:10

Go, yes, yes, yes. Well, guys, thanks so much for being with us. Fun conversation, Little out of the norm, but we know it's a.

It is a hot button, and we just wanted to engage that. And so thanks for joining us with the unfiltered podcast. Until next time, keep it real.